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Post by Aleksksks on Jan 16, 2007 19:50:15 GMT -5
humanity issues aside... this was done at a hardcore show... and it should hit hard at home because it is YOUR community. the scenario is too familiar... just so happened that this one time resulted in a death. This is true, and it would if it were proven to be completely related, but it hasn't. For all we know, it was some random bar fight at a hc show. I still stand by the fact that no one has given proper evidence explaining the entire situation. Until then, I will refrain from absolute judgment. a friend of the person made a personal testimony on the matter... its below the article in my first post underneath it sounds like it was a pack attack that happen within the hardcore show. not just some random bar go-ers |
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Post by xODIO PUROx on Jan 16, 2007 19:50:56 GMT -5
To those two last posts before mine. It hasn't been said who did it and why. Show me a link or something proving it was someone in the that particular hc scene, and I will agree with you.
Either way, mindless violence does suck. Douchebag kids who start crews for the benefit of the pack mentality can suck my balls, and we should be united, not fight each other over stupid shit, unity, yadda yadda.
It does suck a person dies at a show. I feel sorry for his family and friends, but there are still pieces to this story that need to be shown.
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Post by jess on Jan 16, 2007 19:53:35 GMT -5
First off, I have no sympathy whatsoever for nazis or white supremacists. Do I think they should all be murdered? No. Do I think that they should get beat up for sporting a swastika in public? Yes. When you openly align yourself with a movement that calls for and openly supports the genocide of entire races then I really don't care if you get beat up.
Second, I do not think nazis are welcome into the punk rock/hardcore community. I'm pretty sure I don't need to explain myself on this point.
Third, Don't get me wrong. I do not support fighting at shows. I think it's pretty stupid when people get into fights about "that dude danced into me" or "he gave me a dirty look". The only time i think that it is okay to use violence at shows is when there are nazis involved.
Fourth, to compare my fighting for worker's rights and immigrant rights are even at the same level as a white supremacist is just completly ridiculous. The protests that I go to are usually to counter hate rallies. Neo-Nazis and their supporters should not be welcome in any community and i'll be dead the day that I let them take my streets without a fight.
Fifth, if I should ever die fighting for what i believe in I KNOW that a lot of people will think that I died in vain and that my death will mean nothing to them. And I really don't care about their opinions. I know that I will be missed by my comrades and my mother and that's all that really matters to me.
Sixth, (and i think finally) If this man was beat for no good reason then i do not support it and i do think it is a problem in our community that people get carried away with this meat head mentality. HOWEVER, if a neo-nazi was to ever get beat up at a show, then i fully support that.
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Post by Aleksksks on Jan 16, 2007 19:59:25 GMT -5
dude... ok... read the personal testimony... and this is another MySpace Bulletin that was circulating about the show...
Date: Jan 15, 2007 12:57 AM
Subject Murder at DEEP
Body: just thought i'd let you know. Jim Morrison from Tuckerton NJ was beaten to death in front of Club Deep today being sunday.After going to see Ramallah there he was in an altercation in the pit. He was then followed out of the club an beaten to death.
I just saw him 2wks ago at hatebreed. He was a good kid! wouldn't hurt a fly gods honest. I'm EXTREMELY upset by this and just wanted to let someone know. Its Fucking bullshit. I truely hope anyone that was involved burns for this and that club is shut the fuck down! iresponsibility and immaturity is the cause of this.
I'm so done with all of this shit!can we drop the nazi bullshit? and here is a link to the New Jersey message board that was promoting this show and later discussing this incident! thenjscene.com/viewtopic.php?t=242130&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40 |
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Post by gnarlyXcharly on Jan 16, 2007 20:00:06 GMT -5
I agree with Alex and Liz, and even though its a VERY cowardly move to hit someone while they're not looking. He was already out of the club, and they kept on giving shit. Thats just not fucking right.
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Post by jess on Jan 16, 2007 20:03:06 GMT -5
dude... ok... read the personal testimony... and this is another MySpace Bulletin that was circulating about the show...
Date: Jan 15, 2007 12:57 AM
Subject Murder at DEEP
Body: just thought i'd let you know. Jim Morrison from Tuckerton NJ was beaten to death in front of Club Deep today being sunday.After going to see Ramallah there he was in an altercation in the pit. He was then followed out of the club an beaten to death.
I just saw him 2wks ago at hatebreed. He was a good kid! wouldn't hurt a fly gods honest. I'm EXTREMELY upset by this and just wanted to let someone know. Its Fucking bullshit. I truely hope anyone that was involved burns for this and that club is shut the fuck down! iresponsibility and immaturity is the cause of this.
I'm so done with all of this shit!can we drop the nazi bullshit? and here is a link to the New Jersey message board that was promoting this show and later discussing this incident! thenjscene.com/viewtopic.php?t=242130&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40I'm all for dropping the nazi bullshit, all i did was say what i read about on another messageboard. And like I said in one of the points i made: Third, Don't get me wrong. I do not support fighting at shows. I think it's pretty stupid when people get into fights about "that dude danced into me" or "he gave me a dirty look". The only time i think that it is okay to use violence at shows is when there are nazis involved. |
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Post by xlaredolizx on Jan 16, 2007 20:17:44 GMT -5
Sixth, (and i think finally) If this man was beat for no good reason then i do not support it and i do think it is a problem in our community that people get carried away with this meat head mentality. HOWEVER, if a neo-nazi was to ever get beat up at a show, then i fully support that. ok let says there is nazi at a show you went attended. you and others tell this guy to leave and you harass him for his beliefs. things get out of hand and someone starts beating him up. you just stand back and watch (maybe even cheer them on). One hit too hard and the guy is dead... what are your thoughts then?! it is still ok to beat someone up? whether nazi or any other believe, ideal, etc. VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER! once again... point wasn't the story it self. This Post is to make this scene aware that violence is not a good thing. why... because Nation wide, violence has become more common at Hardcore shows. as a result, people get hurt and now someone "may" have died. |
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Post by jess on Jan 16, 2007 20:28:06 GMT -5
Sixth, (and i think finally) If this man was beat for no good reason then i do not support it and i do think it is a problem in our community that people get carried away with this meat head mentality. HOWEVER, if a neo-nazi was to ever get beat up at a show, then i fully support that. ok let says there is nazi at a show you went attended. you and others tell this guy to leave and you harass him for his beliefs. things get out of hand and someone starts beating him up. you just stand back and watch (maybe even cheer them on). One hit too hard and the guy is dead... what are your thoughts then?! it is still ok to beat someone up? whether nazi or any other believe, ideal, etc. VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER! once again... point wasn't the story it self. This Post is to make this scene aware that violence is not a good thing. why... because lately, Nation wide, violence has become more common at Hardcore shows. as a result, people get hurt and now someone "may" have died. I have been at shows where nazi's get beat up. I've been to rallies where I have even thrown a fist or two at a neo-nazi. It's not like I or others beat them over the head with bar stools or brass knuckles and start pistol whipping them. And never have I heard of an instance where Anti-Fascist people kill a nazi. BUT i have heard many time where Neo-Nazis follow kids home after shows and do kill them. I've said it before and i'll say it again: I have NO SYMPATHY for neo-nazis and i could care-less if any one of them is hurt. If that makes me a bitch or too militant or TOO EXTREME. Then so be it. I understand Alex's initial post. This spiraled into a debate on how to deal with a fascist at shows and that was not the point of this post. The point was ALMOST all violence at shows is pointless and an idiotic display of machismo. |
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Post by xODIO PUROx on Jan 16, 2007 20:34:38 GMT -5
dude... ok... read the personal testimony... and this is another MySpace Bulletin that was circulating about the show...
Date: Jan 15, 2007 12:57 AM
Subject Murder at DEEP
Body: just thought i'd let you know. Jim Morrison from Tuckerton NJ was beaten to death in front of Club Deep today being sunday.After going to see Ramallah there he was in an altercation in the pit. He was then followed out of the club an beaten to death.
I just saw him 2wks ago at hatebreed. He was a good kid! wouldn't hurt a fly gods honest. I'm EXTREMELY upset by this and just wanted to let someone know. Its Fucking bullshit. I truely hope anyone that was involved burns for this and that club is shut the fuck down! iresponsibility and immaturity is the cause of this.
I'm so done with all of this shit!can we drop the nazi bullshit? and here is a link to the New Jersey message board that was promoting this show and later discussing this incident! thenjscene.com/viewtopic.php?t=242130&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40All I asked for was some proof that this was actually in relation to the hc scene and not just shit that happened to go on at a show. I'm all for dropping the nazi shit. Talking about that gets me upset, so I'd rather not. It just happened to be a form of a lead as to what happened. Sixth, (and i think finally) If this man was beat for no good reason then i do not support it and i do think it is a problem in our community that people get carried away with this meat head mentality. HOWEVER, if a neo-nazi was to ever get beat up at a show, then i fully support that. ok let says there is nazi at a show you went attended. you and others tell this guy to leave and you harass him for his beliefs. things get out of hand and someone starts beating him up. you just stand back and watch (maybe even cheer them on). One hit too hard and the guy is dead... what are your thoughts then?! it is still ok to beat someone up? whether nazi or any other believe, ideal, etc. VIOLENCE IS NOT THE ANSWER! once again... point wasn't the story it self. This Post is to make this scene aware that violence is not a good thing. why... because lately, Nation wide, violence has become more common at Hardcore shows. as a result, people get hurt and now someone "may" have died. It would suck because it'll bring bad publicity to the hardcore scene, but, and it may make me sound like an asshole with no heart, but I wouldn't care that he died. I'd feel worse for the guy's family and the dude going to jail. Would you honestly go up to the guy and talk to him and try to convince him that his beliefs support the genocide of all but one race is wrong? Would you try to make him a better person through peaceful action? Or would you sit idly by as he spits hatred for you and your family for being hispanic? Violence does suck. It shouldn't be happening at shows or anywhere else, but I won't stand by as someone blatantly shows their hatred for me due to my ethnicity through their speech or attire. as cliche as it may be, to quote Aus-Rotten: FUCK NAZI SYMPATHY and now, I drop the nazi shit and this thread. Nazis suck. This dude dying at the show sucks. Douchebag crews suck. Bullshit violence at shows sucks. I'm done. |
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Post by freddo on Jan 16, 2007 23:28:57 GMT -5
i know most of this has been cleared up already but i wanted to say a couple words before i lose my thoughts....which i probably will halfway through this...
here goes.
all bullshit aside, no matter what the fucking cause....it doesnt matter what you think personally what people will think about your death or beating for that matter. its the fact that this happened to someone else in the hardcore community. this person for the most part doesnt have the same ideals you do when it comes to death or why they got beaten. maybe he was just a normal dude that had nothing to do with anything that was just at a show. their family and friends need some sort of sympathy after losing someone close to them. none of this changes the fact that it happens EVERYWHERE! people can stop it, but noone seems to step up, and would most rather join the majority and wead out the weak or pick on the few that are singled out than be the ones getting the ass whooping or being excluded from shows or the scene.
its easy to say you dont give a fuck about someone who got their ass beat in another city or state...whatever. but when its your friends or family that are the ones getting fucked up for a weak ass reason like that, im sure your gonna be in the same position as this guys friends. wishing that whoever did it to him would fucking have justice served to them for being ignorant and selfish.
all this is, is something that should be looked after in OUR scene. its something that shouldnt get out of hand or even be an issue in OUR scene, and hopefully we can get those bands that come down all the time that say...fuck! laredo is kick ass because all of the people there are fuckin rad! and those bands can possibly, even if its one person at a time, change the way people think on these issues through word of mouth.
we have an awesome scene, but no matter what the case, i wouldnt want my ass handed to me for my shirt that says "punks dead emo kids next". we all have our fav. bands and shirts. dont be a fucking hot topic kid and start the whole judging phase again. hardcore is supposed to be the opposite. anyone and everyone is allowed to enjoy it.
may this dude rest in peace.
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Post by freddo on Jan 16, 2007 23:34:54 GMT -5
Nazis suck. This dude dying at the show sucks. Douchebag crews suck. Bullshit violence at shows sucks. this part was my favorite!  |
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Post by Toubabo Koomi on Jan 17, 2007 11:09:42 GMT -5
I'm going to kick Freddy's head in because he's too sexy no pleas too sexy too sexy!
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Post by xODIO PUROx on Jan 17, 2007 11:18:16 GMT -5
I'm going to kick Freddy's head in because he's too sexy no pleas too sexy too sexy! hahahahaha |
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Post by Poncenoche on Jan 17, 2007 14:49:19 GMT -5
Wow, I have been reading throughtout all the links I saw, his myspace and read all the comments. And read through most of the post on the NJ message board. This guy, Nazi or not, seemed to be a really nice guy and didn't disserve this, no one does. This is compelete bullshit, and should be stopped. When I see nazis at show I could careless if they are there just as long as everyone is having fun and enjoying the show, but once that they start stuff okay say something, don't resort to violence. I really feel bad about what happened to this guy, no one disserve to have their life taken away for stupid shit like what happened in the incident.
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Post by Gabe on Jan 17, 2007 14:57:38 GMT -5
i know most of this has been cleared up already but i wanted to say a couple words before i lose my thoughts....which i probably will halfway through this... here goes. all bullshit aside, no matter what the fucking cause....it doesnt matter what you think personally what people will think about your death or beating for that matter. its the fact that this happened to someone else in the hardcore community. this person for the most part doesnt have the same ideals you do when it comes to death or why they got beaten. maybe he was just a normal dude that had nothing to do with anything that was just at a show. their family and friends need some sort of sympathy after losing someone close to them. none of this changes the fact that it happens EVERYWHERE! people can stop it, but noone seems to step up, and would most rather join the majority and wead out the weak or pick on the few that are singled out than be the ones getting the ass whooping or being excluded from shows or the scene. its easy to say you dont give a fuck about someone who got their ass beat in another city or state...whatever. but when its your friends or family that are the ones getting fucked up for a weak ass reason like that, im sure your gonna be in the same position as this guys friends. wishing that whoever did it to him would fucking have justice served to them for being ignorant and selfish. all this is, is something that should be looked after in OUR scene. its something that shouldnt get out of hand or even be an issue in OUR scene, and hopefully we can get those bands that come down all the time that say...fuck! laredo is kick ass because all of the people there are fuckin rad! and those bands can possibly, even if its one person at a time, change the way people think on these issues through word of mouth. we have an awesome scene, but no matter what the case, i wouldnt want my ass handed to me for my shirt that says "punks dead emo kids next". we all have our fav. bands and shirts. dont be a fucking hot topic kid and start the whole judging phase again. hardcore is supposed to be the opposite. anyone and everyone is allowed to enjoy it. may this dude rest in peace. I agree...and yes like Picon said, Freddy is a sexy bitch. |
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